can you be buddhist and atheistcan you be buddhist and atheist

Jack Kornfield, an American teacher and former Theravadin monk, stated that the Insight Meditation Society wanted to present Buddhist meditation "without the complications of rituals, robes, chanting and the whole religious tradition. Though a god might have an extremely long life compared to a human, it is determined by karma and will eventually come to an end with the rebirth of the god into another life form. We have a. No amount of devotion or praying to a god will bring Buddhist enlightenment. Just that their 'belief' is not defined by the modern concept of a Omnipresent Forc. Many Christians even claim faith to be superior to knowledge. Its our internet service provider. In the forlorn hope that, by being an atheist someone it (a stream of chittas) arrives at some kind of certainty clarity? Can I uphold the standards of Buddhism, and still be wary of some of its parts? Are we really meant to have any interest in what Tom, Dick or, Henrietta think about things they can neither demonstrate or negate? Sitting in a vast tent where, during the day, scores of partygoers had washed off . It's a convenient label for an absence that is sometimes treated as a 'thing'. Calling Agnosticism "ignorance" is a bit confusing when it's applied to Buddhism. The last part of the journey, the part that really counts, we need to get out of the vehicle (any vehicle) vajra, maha, thera or secular (the vehicle you have, when youre not having a vehicle) and walk into empty space to where? The Buddha taught that the biggest barrier to realization is the notion that "I" am a permanent, integral, autonomous entity. The best one yet is the latest: teaching creative writing, a course called Making it Matter, to the eldering through Spokane Community College ACT 2 program. Mahayana Buddhism and contemplating the doctrine of dependent origin would seem to preclude a creator god or some divine intelligent being designing the universe. Entry into bliss and freedom of Nirvana and emancipation from the world of suffering and rebirth is gained only through undergoing Buddhist discipline. It only takes a minute to sign up. Dr. Martin Luther King, states, Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. Sorry if the question is a little muddled. InMahayana Buddhism, which is the dominant form of Buddhism in China, Tibet, Nepal, Japan and Korea, all phenomena are empty of intrinsic existence. A simple lack of belief since the god claim has not been proven. I read your article on secular Buddhism and found your answers interesting, but am curious about the G-O-D word. Buddhism is not about either believing or not believing in God or gods. My preference to play with than the kids next door using ieds and drones.Such a pain to wake up dead. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. I cannot comment on Buddhas theism, but want to add to the conversation from the perspective of a neuroscientist and clinical neurologist who has keenly observed altered states of consciousness, hallucinations, sleep-wakefulness cycles, coma, and the near-death, out-of-body experience. The problems are manifold. He was certainly not a pedlar of ists and isms! It is the ideological filters that we have adopted that need to be subverted/dissolved through loving clear awareness. Any recommendation? By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. Awakening is the direct and immediate discovery that we are not who we take ourselves to be! Look at last Februarys Sci American article Remembrance of All Things Past describing the staggering and effortless memories exhibited by some individuals. My understanding is that Buddhists generally see faith as less desirable than knowledge, but an acceptable alternative where knowledge is unavailable. No gods, no beliefs, yet Buddhism encourages devotion. We dont just have the teachings to negotiate! What would be the secular interpretation for the Assu Sutta and the Mata Sutta? I too have trouble with the concept of a personal God, for me he/she/it is much bigger than that It is the creator of all from which good and bad flow remembering that good and bad are conceptualisations based on our limited knowledge of our place in the universe. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. This approach stands in contrast to the aggressive atheism that periodically erupts in the modern West. I am an atheist and I am also a Zen Buddhist, more or less (I don't practice as much as I should). Of course if we do not give a God the possibility of doing everything thus becoming as powerful as a roulette wheel..! I will try to improve in my next postings. Neuroscientific research has allowed us to visualize the invisible with our advanced imaging techniques. Confession of a Buddhist Atheist - Goodreads Most Buddhists, especially western Buddhists, don't spend much time worrying about whether gods exist or not - it's just not an important question. "Atheism" is the absence of theism (Belief in one or more gods). I just cant see how it matters, pun intended, whether Buddha was a deist, but I suspect that if he lived in our times, he would see it from the neuroscientific perspective. You may disagree. Assuming constant operation cost, are we guaranteed that computational complexity calculated from high level code is "correct"? Where Freethought is the position that we should seek knowledge, naturalism is the belief that we have a chance (in principle) of succeeding. - Quora Answer (1 of 18): No, not by a mile and not by today's modern 'Atheist' sense. Buddhist systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth., The Kalama Sutta is one of Buddhas most widely quoted teachings on this subject. Can you be a Buddhist as well as a Christian? . Atheism in Buddhism, Jainism. In our modern and contemporary context, Buddhism can coexist with Western beliefs in God because it recognizes that such beliefs assist people in dealing with their everyday needs. Sam Harris, a self-identified atheist and fan of Buddhism, quipped that Buddhism would be so much better if it could be cleansed of the naive, petitionary, and superstitious trappings of religion altogether. We've put together, You don't have to believe in deities all the way until you start seeing them everywhere ;). Science may have its limit vis--vis the lived human experience, but theres no doubt that science, as well as a general knowledge of radically conflicting religious ideas, have together nullified a single cosmological narrative for the global citizen. Predator, tribal mankind was able to face mortal dangers and the process of dying without fear, especially when encountering the visions that allow for a peaceful transition from life to death. How do you understand it? So trying to capture him in these terms is bound to misrepresent him. For example, a Buddhist might evoke the Bodhisattva of compassion in order to become more compassionate. The Brahminism you referred to can involve sacrificial rights to feed the gods. To practice the Dharma is to become increasingly comfortable with provisional truths: what you believe today will likely be penetrated by a deeper understanding tomorrow. The many mythological creatures and beings that populate Mahayana Buddhism art and literature are often called "gods" or "deities." I'm not sure how or why the distinction matters in Buddhism, unless it affects practice etc. They mostly just drop into the scene and then drop out usually up! And what is the self? An atheist does not believe in gods but do they believe in their own identity as atheists? Secular Buddhismsometimes also referred to as agnostic Buddhism, Buddhist agnosticism, ignostic Buddhism, atheistic Buddhism, pragmatic Buddhism, Buddhist atheism, or Buddhist secularismis a broad term for a form of Buddhism based on humanist, skeptical, and agnostic values, valuing pragmatism and (often) naturalism, eschewing beliefs in the supernatural or paranormal. You may have heard of "sabbe dhamma anatta", the Buddhist teaching that "all phenomena is not-self". Nor, for that matter, would the concept nontheist. Please try again. Jack Kornfield Not in every Scout unit. In Japan virtually all temples had a shrine, dedicated to a tutelary native god or Indian deity, to protect the sacred area. But he believed in and talked a lot about Brahma, King of the Gods and about other Gods . There is the Secular Buddhist movement that would be very compatible with atheistic beliefs. I believe Buddha would be pleased if we critically examined the esoteric "supernatural" aspects taught by some Buddhists schools, and to determine the veracity of them for ourselves, through practice. Perhaps it is best not to get hung up on these dialectics and to appreciate the moment. Are these corruptions of the Buddha's teachings? Another possibility is that there's a sutta called the Kalama Sutta, which famously says. But you can still practice Buddhism at a certain level. Do Buddhism and Atheism contradict each other? Is there anything to a human besides the physical body? Unskillful actionwell, you know what Im going to sayit will disturb your mind (and likely others too), both on the meditation cushion and off. The long-running series in which readers answer other readers questions on subjects ranging from trivial flights of fancy to profound scientific and philosophical concepts, Can you be a Buddhist as well as a Christian? Buddhism is a 'Path To Liberation' and does not rely on gods but some forms of Buddhism do have discourse with 'spiritual entities'. Usually, when we ask if something exists we are asking if it is "real," as opposed to being a fantasy. Of course whether something thought to be justification really is makes things complicated in a way that's way beyond the scope of this answer. Belief plays a different role in Buddhism than in many other religionsthis is one of the reasons it is finding a sure foothold in the West. It's not just belief in gods that are irrelevant to Buddhism. Or are some beliefs in deities too important to the practice of Buddhism? It's not that they aren't' "real" buddhists, they are not buddhists in any way. It is a practice, like producing a vase from humble crete, or have water flowing where there was none. For that wisdom we owe great gratitude to the Buddha, atheist or not, and all those who have breathed life into his path. To be honest, I also am starting to feel like I'm reaching an existential crisis. Merely "believing in" enlightenment and nirvana is pointless. Awakening is not a belief system. In case that's what you are after, I'll address them. "[4] S. N. Goenka, a popular teacher of Buddhist Vipassana meditation, taught that his practice was not a sectarian doctrine, but something from which people of every background can benefit: an art of living.[5] This essentially treats Buddhism as an applied philosophy, rather than a religion,[3] or relies on Buddhist philosophy without dogmatism. What conjunctive function does "ruat caelum" have in "Fiat justitia, ruat caelum"? A selection will be published on Sunday. The Buddha did not deny physical causality the natural momentum of events in the world at large. Still the part about "don't go by reports" is often interpreted as license to believe only what you know, what you can verify, what you have verified. [7][8] In his book After Buddhism he promotes a skeptical philosophical interpretation of Buddhism akin to the Hellenistic philosophical tradition of Pyrrhonism. I am sorry you did not took inspiration in what I said here. Therefore, he does not fit into either category. 30 Jun 2023 17:41:20 Any particular god became a god because of his good karma. ), and the laws of physics turned out to be the same on each of them. Who cares? Should I disclose my academic dishonesty on grad applications? Can I reject them and still be theravada buddhist? His entire teaching is always based on the concept of come and see for yourself an invitation to open our minds and hearts, to let go of prejudice and tightly held views, opinions and beliefs to discover the reality of what is (dharma), knowing of course that that can never be attained, but a path that leads to great benefit both internally and in society. [14] It questions notions of spiritual progress based on standardized prescriptions for meditation practice, as well as the idea that Buddhist practice is essentially concerned with gaining proficiency in a set of meditative techniques endorsed by the authority of a traditional school or teacher. Nor do Buddhists technically believe in a permanent individual soul that keeps being reborn into new bodies in the process of reincarnation. We can take the attitude that the Saints and Sages etc of all these great teachings were all hallucinating and the Buddhas teachings is the true and only path to enlightenment and the end of suffering as he termed it. In fact, according to Buddhism, the gods themselves need to be enlightened. I was most intrigued, though, by Badiners description of the Buddha as an atheist. He is not an old philosopher with his dusty books in some academy at the end of the universe. Privacy Policy. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning, 2023 Guardian News & Media Limited or its affiliated companies. by: Stephen Batchelor, Christina Feldman, John Peacock, Akincano Weber, A weekly update on everything you need to know on tricycle.org, Buddhist teachings to your inbox every Thursday, Course announcements, offers, and events from our partners, Weekly updates and guided meditations from a Buddhist teacher throughout the month of March, http://www.rifters.com/real/articles/Science_No-Brain.pdf, http://www.scribd.com/doc/161425585/Premodern-Transcendental-Perspectives-on-the-Missing-Heritability-Problem-and-Some-Intelligence-Conundrums, How to Understand Selflessnessand Why Its So Important, The Wisdom of the Body: Connecting with Your Inner Resilience. It is important to understand this differentiation. If somebody uses their lack of faith in God to create discord and disunity. To a certain extent it doesnt really matter whether a person believes in god, except that such a belief from an early age leaves a person vulnerable to future twisted logic. Sometimes, we have a tendency to overlook the obvious! The devas in the Buddhas teachings are not portrayed as (movers and shakers) in the forces of nature on Earth. Yep But! The examples cited easily overturn unquestioned scientific assumptions that are symptomatic of the simple-minded (albeit pretentious) bind scientific materialism has left us in. Does one need to believe in God or gods to follow his system? [10] To this end it seeks to recover the original teachings of Siddhattha Gautama, the historical Buddha, yet without claiming to disclose "what the Buddha really meant". For one, as Stephen said, pinning the Buddha down to a specific category of belief is a difficult thing, because we live in a different time with a different set of values and a whole other language to express them. Metta. I responded with enthusiasm and persistence: I like nontheistthanksbut do send me the citation when you can.. Other services usually offered by a god are an explanation of the origin of the world, of oneselves and of our death. Opinion | What Churches Offer That 'Nones' Still Long For "Ignorance" is a term which features in Buddhism too: Avidy (Pali: avijj). Personally, Im not interested in maintaining delusional beliefs so, like quantum physicist Richard Fineman, I wont parse the meaning of nontheist, agnostic, whatever. This is why we need to question everything! Brahma and Indra encourage the Buddha to share the truth of his enlightenment with all people. Whether the doctrine is factual or not is not the point. Does anything continue your existence? As I like to say, no one person is to blame for creating this whole messother than each of us, that is! A complete discussion on the topic can be found in this answer. I wont deny that some traditions of Buddhism utilize the aforementioned trappings, but ultimately, they must rely on the canonical materials of Buddhism wherein dogma is discarded for direct experience. I always understood that the Buddha said that he had looked for God and ha not found him or her and took the attitude that why bother as God was not important to what he was teaching. The Isms we identify with are an important element of our assumed identity. Instead, it aligns itself with today's post-metaphysical philosophy, not least phenomenology, so finding itself on a convergent path with similar movements in radical Christian theology, found in the work of thinkers such as Don Cupitt[12] and Gianni Vattimo.[13]. Freethinkers and Skeptics are concerned with making our beliefs as close to reality as we can, no matter what that turns out to be. In practical terms rejecting the existence of such beings doesn't really present major problems as it isn't an essential doctrinal teaching. By creating insuperable differences between the religions both created an impenetrable wall around their faith, ignoring the challenge that accurate understanding might present to their views. Many researchers use him to gain knowledge into Buddhism. Certainly, Buddhism in practice has many of the same "literal versus allegorical" issues one finds in other religions. The Kamala people told the Buddha that many monks and brahmans (holy men and gurus) had come to Kesaputta before him and that each of these religious men had expounded their own doctrines and reviled the doctrines of others. A good (short) text to look at if you are interested is Buddhism without Beliefs by Stephen Batchelor. Shall I mention I'm a heavy user of the product at the company I'm at applying at and making an income from it? Remember, the teaching of anatta is not a negation of self or God or abiding essence, but rather a statement that the truth (sacca) is always beyond our concepts (sankharas). Tags ask a buddhist buddhism secular buddhism. Insight into the Buddha Dharma can bring all our forms of identity into question. But do those explanations help us or hamper us? Secular Buddhists tend to reject any supernatural beliefs within Buddhism in favour of pragmatic or evidence based solutions. Some schools of Buddhism are deeply devotional. Cookie Notice Pretending that what they believe is unquestionably true. It is by seeing through the delusion of ego that realization blooms. The filters of the suttas/sutras are the least of our problems. Of course you could say 'Aha but these aren't real Buddhists'. Buddhism, in denying the Creator God of the Abrahamic and many other faiths is already atheist in nature. Has the atheist identity been located anywhere empirically? If we are still relatively certain that we are somebody/anybody we are still pissing in the wind! provides various services including seo,smo,web development,web designing and data entry: Virtualhelp24 So you'll pretty much have to decide if any of the entities claimed to exist in Buddhism (or in any particular variant thereof) are "gods". To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. How can we compare expressive power between two Turing-complete languages? Traditional (religious) identities can be threatened by modern (secular) ones and, vice versa. Should i refrigerate or freeze unopened canned food items? It's not! Basically, there is a self, but it is not standalone or independent. Buddhism is a religion and so, obviously you can't be Buddhist and irreligious at the same time. Wow I just tried it! Anna M St Clair. The story is also about rebirth another idea that people express strong opinions about although they do not really have the faintest idea of what does or, does not happen when the lights go out! Starting the Prompt Design Site: A New Home in our Stack Exchange Neighborhood, Statement from SO: June 5, 2023 Moderator Action, Following the Dhamma without taking refuge. He then realized that external deities just didnt fit an enlightened scenario. The Buddha suggested that it was fear that produced the religious . In the Zen monastery where I first learned about Buddhism, the monks liked to point to the Buddha representation on the altar and say, "That's you up there. The Buddha did not claim to be in any way divine, nor does Buddhism involve the idea of a personal god. How to resolve the ambiguity in the Boy or Girl paradox? Continuous new writings from leading Buddhist teachers and New York Times bestselling authors, including: Sharon Salzberg Well, my belief is of course the Buddha knew everything there was to experience, at least for what regards sorrow and its overcoming. This is a question that may be clarified and re-clarified and answered in different ways at different times as one's understanding of the teachings deepens. So Jesus turned a stern and punishing god in a god of love, and the Buddha turned etheric devas in immanent beings as embroiled in petty issue as humans are. Many of Buddhism's claims seem to be supernatural and so incompatible with naturalism. Based on studies of the relationship between brain function and mental processes, I start with the working premise that consciousness and belief in a transcendental spiritual world, or belief in the existence of immaterial god(s) is an emergent property of neural activity. Joseph Goldstein, With Stephen Batchelor, Sharon Salzberg, Andrew Olendzki, and more. All rights reserved. (from a humble rider of the sublime and non-existent Vajrayana). Any doctrine or practice that enables realization is an upaya. Christian atheism is a form of Christianity that adopts the teachings, narratives, symbols, or communities associated with Jesus without accepting the literal existence of God.. Christian atheism takes many forms: Some include an ethics system. its ok. the kiddies in the sand-pit have arguments over who gets to play with what! One might bow just to show gratitude for the Buddha's life and practice. Well, you can call buddhism a religion, I can see it as some psychological practice. Is there a non-combative term for the word "enemy"? ), merit and its transference, rebirth, Buddhist cosmology (including the existence of pure lands and hells), etc. Ask A Mormon: Do Mormons stockpile goods. We may project all manner of ideas onto a fully awakened being. We want to verify those beliefs, and try to keep reverifying in case we made a mistake. Atheism is the LACK of a belief in a god, it is not claiming that there isnt one. Well, even your existence is an assumed phenomenon induced from your perceptions. Are Mormons Preppers? What Do Buddhists Mean by 'Enlightenment'? Beliefs Or in other words, do the services God offers us make our path easier or harder. How to maximize the monthly 1:1 meeting with my boss? Come back when you are ready to say something that might serve a useful purpose. In the West people use "Agnostic" as a middle way between theist and atheist: "theist" means, "I believe in God"; "atheist" means, "I believe there is no God"; and "agnostic", "I neither believe nor disbelieve, I have no personal knowledge of it." If the experiences of all are valid, what does that say about the Truth?. The Buddha did not say he believed in the existence of deities. If Buddha was not a god, why bow to Buddha-figures? Does the EMF of a battery change with time? Now Agnosticism is a claim that you are ignorant, or not sure whether God is there or not. They are serving no useful purpose! From that perspective, he advocated a position different from atheism, theism, and agnosticism: perhaps indifference defines it best. He need not lump all religions together. Therefore an atheist can be a Buddhist and vice versa. An atheist believes only what he can see. This becomes more evident when people lose their sense of identity through pathology or through colonisation. Jeffrey Marsh, who spent 20 years studying Zen Buddhism . Reincarnation has been, for me, a wait-and-see proposition. So the Buddha is an example of one who can be a theist while rejecting a creator. here is a nice site for online Virtual help. He detailed this issue himself in the famous talk in the forest when he asked the monks whether there were more leaves in his hands or in the forest. O'Brien, Barbara. Non-anarchists often say the existence of prisons deters violent crime. I know that sounds like a bad pun, but really, my position continues to be agnostic. The purpose of the story is to illustrate that the awakening of those who have realised the Dharma has no location! The other answers have covered this from the Buddhist side, I'll try to answer from the Atheist side. This article really grinds my gears. No doubt many will cry foul. I can call myself a unicorn, will you agree with me? There is no creator to defer to. So long as someone does not believe in gods it is reasonable to classify them as an atheist. If atheism is the absence of belief in a God or gods, then many Buddhists are, indeed, atheists. The Buddha suggested that it was fear that produced the religious impulse in humanity. However most of the atheists I know are now of a different sort. Why and where and for how long do they stockpile goods? But that mindset can lead to unhappiness. - Quora Something went wrong. If you are a militant atheist you might as well join a cult there is no substantive difference. What is Atheism? Serious Buddhists are way more 'believers' than regular Abrahamic or even other Dharmic religions like Hinduism or Sikhism followers. So in this case, Kalamas, dont go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, This contemplative is our teacher. When you know for yourselves that, These qualities are unskillful; these qualities are blameworthy; these qualities are criticized by the wise; these qualities, when adopted and carried out, lead to harm and to suffering then you should abandon them., The Buddha continued, When you know for yourselves that, These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness then you should enter & remain in them. (Translation Thanissaro Bhiikhu).